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- womensmarchToday's #ActivistAday features myself, ShiShi Rose (@shishi.rose) and I am one of the admins here.
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For some people, their outlook of this country deeply changed on November 9th. For the rest of us, this is how it has always looked.
I want to remind you that that is a privilege.
It's a privilege that white supremacy wasn't at the forefront of your reality, because you benefit from it.
I want to remind you that no ally ever got very far, in any movement, without acknowledgement of their own privilege daily. You do not just get to join the efforts that people of color have been working for their entire lives to both teach and survive, without doing work, too. You don't just get to join because now you're scared, too. I was born scared.
Now is the time for you to be listening more, talking less, spend time observing, taking in media and art created by people of color, researching, and unlearning the things you have been taught about this country. You should be reading our books and understanding the roots of racism and white supremacy. Listening to our speeches. You should be drowning yourselves in our poetry. Now is the time that you should be exposed to more than just the horrors of this country, but also the beauty that has always existed within communities of color. Beauty that was covered over because the need to see white faces depicted was more important.
Now is the time to teach your children, to call out your family, to finally speak up. You have been silent for long enough. Now is the time to realize that you should have joined us sooner. But since you're here now, it's time to get to work.
#WhyIMarch - saskia.elisabeth@listengin I appreciate you taking the time to write that, but I have no disagreements. I 100% acknowledge that race is always an issue for POC because of the shit they have to deal with. I 100% acknowledge that they have been fighting, many of them, their whole lives. I 100% acknowledge that as a white woman I have a certain privilege to not have to fear these issues all the time.
- saskia.elisabeth@listengin sorry it posted before I finished. What I don't understand is how any woman could try to discount another woman's march and say it isn't as important and not valid simply because they are a white woman. I do not agree with @shishi.rose's post and that doesn't make me a part of the problem. Had she written to listen to POC, hear them out, fight for them when their voices are suppressed, and look in the mirror to make sure you aren't just including people who look like you in your movement, I would not have commented because I 100% agree. Instead what she did is blatantly attack white women as if they are all just along for the ride and wanting to be special. All woman have struggles, yes we should fight to make sure women of color's struggles are recognized and fought for. That doesn't mean attacking the people who want to fight these battles because they are just now recognizing there is a battle. Yes, these women can join the movement now because they are scared. That is why we all joined the movement in the first place. I disagree with the post because we need to be united as woman, sticking up for each other and encouraging each other to recognize each other's struggles. No one has every gained an ally by attacking them because of their race and the fact that they haven't had to deal with as much shit and saying they aren't welcome in the movement because of it. Everyone is allowed to feel pain and everyone is allowed to join the movement, regardless of whether or not the pain is as great or they just found the movement.
- shishi.rose@saskia.elisabeth lol literally no1 said that a white womans march was discredited or not as important.
- saskia.elisabeth@shishi.rose it was literally all over twitter. People discrediting white women march because white women voted for Trump so apparently that means that they are all pos now. People comparing white feminism to POC feminism as it not being serious. By saying that a white woman don't get to join the march because they are just now getting scared it is discrediting their march by discrediting their fear. By saying that white women shouldnt be talking about their fears you are saying their voices aren't as important. Yes, we should be surrounding ourself in all of cultures many beautiful forms and opening our eyes to a world that has been suppressed. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it, or talk about the struggles we are fighting against.
- saskia.elisabeth@shishi.rose I understand the point you're trying to make, I'm not offended by your post, or calling out white privilege. I just don't think you made your point very effectively. Regardless, I respect this post a great deal more than the shit I saw on twitter which was blatantly discounting white woman as all trump supporters and not as serious about the issues or valid in their march.
- shishi.rose@saskia.elisabeth lol that's not discrediting them that's saying WAKE THE FUCK UP. Not everything is about white women. You really think that white women ignoring the struggles of women of color and only getting involved now because they are personally affected doesn't warrant any responses from the women of color that have been doing this work already? You're so ridiculous. Keep wallowing in your privilege. Keep thinking your feelings matter more than the lives of marginalized people. Keep doing all that. I'm done talking to you.
- shishi.rose@saskia.elisabeth I don't care if you don't like the way I made my point. You do not exist as a black women, you do not have black oppression. You do not get to tell me how you think I should have spoken out about my own oppression. Good bye
- shishi.rose@whitenonsenseroundup
- saskia.elisabeth@Shishi.rose lol this is literally exactly what I was talking about. As soon as a white person disagrees with what you said you attack them. I literally just said I wasn't offended so I don't know what feelings your referring to that I seem to think matter more than someone else's life? Not everything is about POC women either. Hell, not everything is about women. It's about respecting people. All people. All of their struggles and all of their reasons for fighting. You do realize you are INCREDIBLY privileged just for being able to make this post. Can I call you out to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize you live in a 1st world country where you face FAR fewer problems than women across the country? You really think ignoring the struggles of women without a voice in 3rd world countries and making this about just you and the struggles of women of color in America is not exactly the same as what you are attacking white women for supposedly doing? Keep wallowing in victim mentality while I get keep working fighting for ALL women in ALL countries of ALL backgrounds and ALL situations. I will continue to talk to anyone who feels like talking because I believe conversation is productive and helpful and everyone should have their voice heard.
- ethan_kuhl@listeninging but white women have been participating in the women's movement as early as the 1840s. Beginning with the anti slavery convention in 1840 and then Seneca falls in 1848 all the way up to the formation of NOW in the 1960s, white women have been fighting for equality
- whitenonsenseroundup@saskia.elisabeth first, white feminism isn't feminism...it's white supremacy. Second, your comments imply that you are trying to silence women of color...in particular, one of the organizers of the women's march. Belittling her dual oppression of sexism and racism and telling her she has it better than others is a very privileged thing to do; please see some posts on our page if you want clarification on why it's problematic to do that or say things along the lines of "all lives matter." WOC have every right to be angry that millions showed up for the women's march but haven't shown solidarity with them in recent years (or really, ever). We as white folks have a lot to learn to become better allies, and it's not an easy process, but we are in this together and we hope you will commit to learning and listening.
- whitenonsenseroundup@ethan_kuhl talking about how to better support the most vulnerable among us -- including WOC -- does not create divisions. The divisions are already there. If the movement isn't inclusive and we don't listen to righteous anger, it will be even more difficult to be "impactful," as you say.
- whitenonsenseroundup@annachka83 "your supposed to support each other no matter who went thru what" ? Do you realize how abusive this sounds? How oppressive? Black women and other WOC continue to support the causes of all women while white women do not do the same. It is something we have to acknowledge if we can truly be an intersectional and united movement. Listening and not being defensive are the first steps
- annachka83@whitenonsenseroundup your name says it all.... do you know how racist that sounds? It's amazing to me that everyone still has an issue with this. The women's march is for all women not just WOC, ALL women!!!! Dont you dare tell me what I need to acknowledge. My ancestors/family have nothing do to with what went on with WOC. My family died in camps in WW2 and fighting for their freedom from the Germans does this mean that I should start telling German women how they should act and feel? Get over yourself
- annachka83@whitenonsenseroundup the problem is I made an opinion and instead of taking it just for that you seemed to want to rebuttal and instead of listening your telling me to listen, amazing how this works, just because I have a different view of things ppl seem to want to tell me what I need to acknowledge
- whitenonsenseroundup@annachka83 your "opinion" silenced a woman of color. Your "opinion" is rooted in exclusion. That's why we're asking you to listen.
- annachka83@whitenonsenseroundup How? By saying to not generalize. This convo is pointless and so is this article it's a division between races. You want racism to stop, how about you change your "name" first because not once did I make this a race issue..... it's a women issue for me. No women should tell another women what she needs to feel when she's going to a march for women point blank.
- whitenonsenseroundup@annachka83 the article is not itself a division between races. Those divisions already exist, which is evident in the fact that literally millions of white women marched last weekend for issues that affected them, but have not shown up for WOC in the last few years or even in the last few months. Really, it's a matter of empathy.
- saskia.elisabeth@whitenonsenseroundup lmao lost me right at that first line. A white person has EVERY right to be a feminist just as much as a POC. It is not supremacy to want to be a feminist. That is actually the most idiotic thing I've ever read. Second: where in my entire comment thread did I imply I want to silence women of color? Or are you just saying that disagreeing with a woman of color is me "suppressing" her. I never belittled her dual oppression. Not once. Though she did belittle me for being white. Which like thanks...? Sorry I can't help the way I was born but at least I'm trying to do something to help others, instead of just silencing them because they couldn't possibly understand my struggles. Fact is, she does have it better than others. She's living in a 1st world country in which women are guaranteed an education by law and that's more than I can say for literally dozens of other countries. Where is her solidarity for those girls? Why is she not speaking up for them? Do they actually have any right to be angry at them for not showing solidarity? And by solidarity what could you ever possibly mean besides just not marching with BLM. The march wasn't a black lives matter march. It was a women's march, showing solidarity for ALL women. Also as an aside a really don't appreciate you comparing what I said to "all lives matter." They aren't even remotely the same in any sense and I disagree with the whole "all lives matter" movement. I'm committed to learning and listening, but I ALWAYS have been. This isn't new for me, I've always been opening my other cultures and other ethnicities. I'm studying anthropology so obviously other cultures and people are important to me. I'm committed to listening and learning I just wish that you wouldn't promote the idea that being an ally means bashing your own race as inherently bad, and not speaking up about things a POC says that you don't agree with.
- whitenonsenseroundup@saskia.elisabeth that isn't what I meant, so I'll try again. Of course every person has a right to be a feminist - in fact, that's my entire point. Exclusion of WOC - what has been dubbed "white feminism" - is another form of white supremacy. I'm linking together the two ideas because it's important to understand the long history of white feminists silencing people of color and even using them to get more rights only for themselves - for example, using the passage of the 15th amendment as a springboard for the suffrage movement based on the idea that if black men can vote, white women *certainly* should be able to. The exclusion and oppression didn't end there, so as feminists who are white, we need to actively strive toward intersectional feminism. That means listening to women of color. Second, this is not about comparing activist resumes. There is plenty of work to be done both in the US and abroad. Third, obviously the women's march wasn't a BLM march...it had much more support from white women. That's my entire point. Black women routinely show solidarity with white women, but the reverse isn't always true. Fourth, I'm really glad to hear you're committed to listening and that you see the problem with All Lives Matter. And you're right, allyship isn't about bashing one's own race. However, we do have to be accountable to our history of not supporting WOC as well as our frequent failures to show up for them and with them now.