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  • carolinegleichOn the front lines today with @brodyleven at the EPA public hearing about regional haze in Utah's national parks. It seems like all of Carbon County fit in two busloads to represent the interests of the coal power plants. We felt like the underdogs. The outdoor/tourism industries were seriously underrepresented. I've never been so nervous to speak in front of a group. When I started speaking, I could feel the hostility in the air. But I shared my story and the facts. Utah's outdoor recreation and tourism industries bring in $12.2 billion dollars per year. It's important to clean up the air around the parks and reduce the emissions from coal burning power plants. When I was done, hardly anyone clapped. We need to get more young people and outdoor people to come to these things. We need to make signs and speak up. It's our air and our future. It's scary and not always fun, but it's hugely important to protect the quality of life and the Utah we love. At the end, I gave the coal miners a smile and a wave. I came to realize our goals aren't that different. We are both trying to protect our livelihood- our jobs and the lifestyle we know. It's just the path to the future that we disagree on. #cleanair4utah @protectourwinters @healutah @sierraclub

  • willisiswillisI am a fellow climber and nature conserver. However, the pinnacle of the human experience is just that, being human and taking care of ourselves. The coal and fossil fuel industry is what drives our quality of life and our economy. These activist don't really offer any solution but rather a steady stream of criticism and abolition. Does it not seem backwards to anybody else that a lot of these activists spend thier time in the mountains and our natural resources when such a "fully invested person" should spend time in a green engineering career or a chemistry lab, developing solutions instead of emotional and selfish arguments? Reality is, we are getting better. We can improve. But the activism portrayed by mountain athletes without solutions is a hinderence and a smokescreen to success and bipartisan cooperation.
  • saisvr@willisiswillis The horse and buggy , lead pipes, asbestos and CFC based refrigdgeration defined our quality of life not too long ago. I am glad we did not stick with those because it was convenient at that time. The job of activists is not necessarily to provide solutions, but to drive positive change by bringing to light inconvenient truths even if they disrupts our quality of life. There are mountaineering activists in green careers trying to find solutions and I can speak for them.
  • dakota_hayes_w@willisiswillis you're absolutely right, it is good people who bring attention to the topic, but most of them have zero solutions and need a reality check on what would happen if we shut coal mining down. It will take 43 trillion dollars to convert to solar and wind power....reality check.... Who is going to come up with that money..? Lord only knows how much debt America is in. The planet can not sustaine the rate at which the population is increasing, but no one wants to talk about it. They rather talk about and blame sectors like coal mining, Oil industry, Transportation emissions, rather than look at the big picture. Humans are destroying this earth at an extremely rapid rate, and reproducing at an extremely rapid rate. But everyone wants to say people are crazy when we bring up poulation growth and agriculture are actually the leading cause of destruction. Take the blinders off. Clean energy is extremely important to our society, but we have zero chance at maintaining a sustainable life on this earth if we don't start doing something about it. For every person born you need, more energy, more food, more land, more waste etc etc which is more carbon footprints. @willisiswillis your right and for @utomovich I'm a bad person for doing something I enjoy and passionate about and that is how I'm able to survive? You're not any better than I am, just because you have a cleaner source of energy doesn't mean you're a better person that I am. I'm just simply stating that at the rate the population is increasing, we're fucked either way if we don't DRASTICALLY change our society yesterday, but obviously you can't see that. hope coal does get shutdown, and if I lose my job so be it. It's for the better good but it won't matter because activists like @brodyleven are to focused on what directly affects them and their mountains and that's coal mining emissions in the Utah air. They don't look at the big picture, and call everyone nuts who aren't blaming certain industries and are actually holding the human species accountable. It's like blaming guns for the death of innocent people, instead of blaming the person actually pulling the trigger.
  • brodyleven@suhlahta @utomovich @ted_sebastian wow. Am I right? Wow.
  • brodyleven@saisvr I like the way you put that. Thanks.
  • willisiswillis@saisvr that's a nice send off but let me just point something out. If you were so concerned about human continuity and our quality of living, priority would be placed on CITIES: the places where people actually live. And those activists can go and protest to sustain a culture and fashion driving industry because that all this is. These mountaineering stars who are the few who spend 90% of their time dedicated to "exploration" and physical transcendentalism... really? We need to improve and @dekota_hayes_w actually knows what he is talking about and all anybody is doing is turning a blind eye to everything he says. The motives here are selfish and selective. And the companies that back the activation interest have turned just as much into the planet and lower class destroying monsters that you have reciprocated and called such of the oil and coal companies that are making a difference. So every time you drive your Toyota Tacoma or whatever up the canyon during winter, or take a bus, or heat your house or buy your patagonia or Northface jacket with matching pants and socks, just remember the very industry you incriminate makes that all possible. Stop living a double standard.
  • willisiswillisJust for the record I'm totally one of those "I'll spend 600 on a patagonia jacket and drive my tacoma guys" let's just see the whole picture and thing as as they really are.
  • ted_sebastian@willisiswillis he is totally distracting from the coal issue and confounding it with agriculture. We never said he was wrong, just irrational in his reasoning. I wouldn't expect a Mormon to understand rational thought, though.
  • drumm011@carolinegleich you go girl!
  • deanraynesDon't ever stop doing what your doing!! You are a strong voice for this community! Fossil fuels are phasing out!! Keep pushing ahead!!
  • hiddenpeakzNo one clapped bc you have no clue what you are talking about and one of biggest environmental hypocrites around.
  • willisiswillis@ted_sebastian it's always interesting to see those in a losing battle; they always devolve to name calling and bigotry. Thanks again for proving my point. You're all criticism with no backing for your arguments. And I'm the irrational one?
  • ted_sebastianLol @willisiswillis I'm glad Caroline is lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness. You're on the wrong side of history supporting fossil fuels. Don't get me wrong, they are needed (right now) but we don't need to subsidize them as a country. I don't care about smog as much as CO2 emissions, but I do believe in anthropogenic global warming due to the absorption of radiation by the greenhouse gasses we extract from the ground and burn in our atmosphere. My beliefs are just backed by science. I don't need to spew unrelated facts like Dakota to try and confuse the opposition. All of the facts I would say are supported by peer reviewed journals. I don't have time for a physics of global warming 101 class.
  • willisiswillis@ted_sebastian sadly enough that's exactly what Caroline is doing "cursing the darkness" how is she lighting a candle? The principle here is the continuity if higher living standards and human life. All these people get all up in arms about the "backcountry" and I do too! It's important to protect our natural resources. However, if the motives were well placed maybe she would be concerned about the living conditions of the people not the tourest industry. And if you read @dekota_hayes_w 's responses you would see he is concerned but not beyond what we are capable of doing and what we are doing now. Your type is absolutest; noise making critics at best. Global warming is a shaky theory, (you might know that if you made time for your physics 101) and your type of conservation has become a consumer and trend driven industry at best. Even the philosophies of companies like patagonia have changed from consumer minimalism to large unprecedented upperclassmen consumerism. How much do thier profits increase every time they back an environmental cause or send thier athletes to represent. What's really happening is this type of activism dances on the grave of mother earth while you make a profit and enjoy your backcountry love affair. So while some of us look at the whole "rational" picture, keep turning a blind eye and annoying the industry with one sided and partisan clamor. This type of activism is selfish and leaves us distracted and vulnerable to other just as important and more urgent issues.
  • ted_sebastian@willisiswillis you win bro. Praise Jeebus.
  • pebbleshoo@carolinegleich I read a good quote before that read "we don't inherit the world from our parents, we borrow it from our children". Somehow I feel the world would be a better place if we all lived like this.
  • freddopainterKeep it up @carolinegleich ! Change begins with knowledge. 😎🖖
  • brendonkahnphotoWow I'm really glad you stood up! Need more voices like yours @carolinegleich
  • saisvr@willisiswillis Who says the priority is not on cities? The coal and fossil fuel industries are not spending a lot of money to supply to the few living out in the middle of nowhere. Cities are the biggest consumers of energy and if they cut their consumption by half, neither coal nor fossil fuels will be a profitable industry. If I can afford to ride up a "tacoma" or whatever then I should pay the price at the pump and on my utility bill. I would be living a double standard only if I do not want to pay the true cost of my lifestyle and for example, opposed windmills because they spoil the view. The current price of fuel is ridiculous and unsustainable. Cattle are not slaughtered with the main goal of making leather belts just as we dont extract fossil fuels with the main goal of making patagonia or north face jackets. It is just efficient use of waste. Haglöfs for example makes jackets out of fully recycled materials(what they call PROOF) and if fossil fuel sourced waste becomes expensive others can switch over to recycled and other materials as well. One doesn't need to endlessly pollute the earth so that poor people earn a living. Alternative energy will never become reality until we stop heavily subsidizing fossil fuels and coal. Are coal and fossil fuels a part of our future? absolutely. But at a significantly reduced footprint. The Shells, Exxons and BPs of the world know this and have started investing in alternate energy, but they wont be really serious about it until people demand it.
  • jthedemarkGood on you for standing up and speaking out. Especially against an industry that is taking a beating right now. This is a true dichotomy for me as I support the mining industry as it has supported me. And was chewed up and spit out by skiing after 10 years of competing I could not support my family on the $12 ski coaching job. So while the theory of a environment without the repercussions of energy generation would be nice, there are so many people and families that are supported by this industry. It will be a challenge to subsidize these jobs.
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